Posts by Christ Alone

posted

85
Post 666: Revelation--Its Grand Climax in 70 AD
by Londo111 in
1. watchtower
2. bible
revelation is the most misunderstood and misused book of the bible.

the branch davidians and other cults used revelation with deadly results.

fundamentalists have used it to prognosticate a future where the antichrist and his one world government mark people with microchips or barcodes during a seven year tribulation.
Christ Alone

Perhaps you should read what I wrote and refute that rather than setting up a strawman and trying to beat him up.
That's the point. You didn't write anything specific. I could say, "I just read this post by EntirelyPossible. It was full of JW nonsense. Things like trying to get money from people, half truths, outright lies, and all sorts of malicious stuff." My point is that I could say all that without giving any specific examples.
I didn't set up a strawman (you might want to look up the definition of that btw). I merely asked for examples of what you were saying. It seemed like a way to write off a written work without giving examples. I wasn't defending the book. I just wanted to see how they were asking for donations to their church, " give themselves all the same outs, pick and choose facts, make mountains out of a singular comment by one person, take things out of context, use failed prediction as evidence of the truth of future prediction, etc."
An example of refuting what they said would be something like: "They taught that the King of the North was Canada. They said that if we don't go to church and donate our money, we will be killed by God. I know that is not true because...."
I wasn't trying to be a jerk. Just asking how they were asking for donations, how they used failed predictions as evidence of true future prophecy, and generated a narrative designed to get people to believe them.
36
My story. not that interesting but, I want to tell it.
by crystlew123 in
1. jw
2. friends
hi my name is crystle.

( i dont care if my congregation finds out what i am posting.

i havent been "in" for ten years and i have already told severl members what i think and where they can shove it...:/) i am 27 years old, and a single mother of a wonderful 6 year old.
Christ Alone

Congrats on your freedom. It sounds like it's been a long and tough road. But you've made the best decision. A life as a JW is full of feelings of unworthiness, feeling judged, worried that God will hate you for something you did, etc...
Not to put any pressure on you, but you will eventually want to get your son out of that situation. Their cult-speak is so unhealthy at that age. They absorbe everything, and it may take a while to retrain his thinking that every nonJW will die.
85
Post 666: Revelation--Its Grand Climax in 70 AD
by Londo111 in
1. watchtower
2. bible
revelation is the most misunderstood and misused book of the bible.

the branch davidians and other cults used revelation with deadly results.

fundamentalists have used it to prognosticate a future where the antichrist and his one world government mark people with microchips or barcodes during a seven year tribulation.
Christ Alone

Anyway, back on topic, if you sit down and compile a list of all thing that Revelation says would take place during the end times which end in Armageddon, those things could not have been fully fulfilled by Nero. And they could not have been fulfilled by 70 AD either. To try and make them fit makes as much sense, to me, as saying that all the trumpet blasts were conventions and/or resolutions that the Watchtower made in the early 20th century.
85
Post 666: Revelation--Its Grand Climax in 70 AD
by Londo111 in
1. watchtower
2. bible
revelation is the most misunderstood and misused book of the bible.

the branch davidians and other cults used revelation with deadly results.

fundamentalists have used it to prognosticate a future where the antichrist and his one world government mark people with microchips or barcodes during a seven year tribulation.
Christ Alone

I agree Sab. But people tend to paint this portrait of Jesus that is all love and no condemnation. That isn't the Jesus of the Bible at all. God IS love. And Jesus showed that. My point was that if people think the Jesus of the epistles is harsher than the Jesus of the gospels, it is because Jesus is complex and can't fit in a box. Just like God can't.
JWs break God down into little bite sized pieces that are easy to swallow. They say that He has 4 qualities. Love, Power, Justice, and Wisdom. God is more complex than that little breakdown. They think of Him in a simple way as a Father/God that created a Son. God is more complex than that. Jesus claimed to be the "I AM" which is eternal. He claimed to be God's Son, which the Jews rightly saw as Jesus claiming to be equal with God and thus eternal. Jesus, in the OT, was spoken of as mighty god and eternal father. ETERNAL. Yet there is only 1 God. That shows that God is more complex than humans can really understand. And this applies also to Jesus. That was my only point. I wasn't saying that God isn't love.
Also, another issue with Paul is that the Gospels hadn't been compiled yet. So he had nothing to quote from. Yet, Paul's epistles fit in with the gospels perfectly (IMO), and this is further proof that what Paul was teaching was inspired.
85
Post 666: Revelation--Its Grand Climax in 70 AD
by Londo111 in
1. watchtower
2. bible
revelation is the most misunderstood and misused book of the bible.

the branch davidians and other cults used revelation with deadly results.

fundamentalists have used it to prognosticate a future where the antichrist and his one world government mark people with microchips or barcodes during a seven year tribulation.
Christ Alone

[Jehovah's Witnesses do not comprehend the dual cycle of temple prophecy yet; After Temple cleanse of the "lawless one" in the JW org, this will be taught by Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide after the "befouled garments" of the UN-Pushing-GB is removed; Zech3:2-9 - Which may be quite traumatic to most JWs, but it must fulfill soon;]
AHHHHH!!!! A JW reformer. Sorry to tell you, but the "JW org" will never reform. They are a publishing company that has no place in anything. They began as a false prophetic cult, and continue today as a multi billion dollar real estate/publishing company that teaches lies and hatred to it's 7 million + followers.
Why do you think that JWs are the ones that will comprehend these teachings of yours? Why do you still hold on to 1914, when it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that 607 is a hoax? Why do ignore that 1914 was the date that JWs believed would be the end of the world, and it was not until the 40's that they taught that it was the date of Christ's return?
JW reformers do not make any sense to me. The organization views you as an APOSTATE. YOU! They will never "come around" to your way of thinking. And by holding on to their unique teachings, people are still rolling around in the mud.
85
Post 666: Revelation--Its Grand Climax in 70 AD
by Londo111 in
1. watchtower
2. bible
revelation is the most misunderstood and misused book of the bible.

the branch davidians and other cults used revelation with deadly results.

fundamentalists have used it to prognosticate a future where the antichrist and his one world government mark people with microchips or barcodes during a seven year tribulation.
Christ Alone

they use very similiar reasoning as the JW's, give themselves all the same outs, pick and choose facts, make mountains out of a singular comment by
one person, take things out of context, use failed prediction as evidence of the truth of future prediction, etc., to generate a narrative designed to get
people to believe them and get back to church (and donating).
Any specific examples?This all seems very general and there are no specific examples. Sounds like a way to write off what a person says to others, without any ground to stand on. I'm not saying that you don't have any ground, especially since I haven't read it myself. But it seemed like a very Watchtower-esque way to write off something without examining it.
85
Post 666: Revelation--Its Grand Climax in 70 AD
by Londo111 in
1. watchtower
2. bible
revelation is the most misunderstood and misused book of the bible.

the branch davidians and other cults used revelation with deadly results.

fundamentalists have used it to prognosticate a future where the antichrist and his one world government mark people with microchips or barcodes during a seven year tribulation.
Christ Alone

Paul's Jesus is different than the Gospel Jesus which is fishy.
Examples? How is Paul's Jesus different? He DOES in fact quote what Jesus said during the last supper that takes place in the gospels, so he does in fact know about the gospels. (1Cor 11:23-25)
Also, Paul never met Jesus while Jesus was alive. So him quoting more of Jesus would have been redundant. When examining Paul, and I know I am the minority on this, I don't see any difference to what Jesus preached. Paul expounded on things that Jesus alluded to. Jesus himself said that there were many more things to teach them, but they were not yet ready. He also said that the Holy Spirit would come to teach them many more things.
Some fault Paul's speaking of things like staying away from unrepentant sinners, and when they read it they think of the JW act of disfellowshiping, which Paul was not speaking about at all. Paul was referring to those that were unrepentant and were in the church trying to convince others that the practices were ok. He was saying that it would be better to stay away from a person like that if you didn't want to follow after their conduct. John said much of the same. I don't see the problem here, personally. It was not a rule that was put into place where disfellowshiping ever happened. It was a personal decision to stay away from a person that was trying to get another to sin. I don't see how this is different from Jesus. Some Christians just emphasize all the nice things about Jesus. But He was a radical guy. He insulted the Pharisees and other religious leaders. He did not cower to the authority of Rome when brought before them. He used ropes to whip the people that were insulting his Fathers house by selling animals. He wasn't all about sugar and roses.
If you examine the context of WHY Paul was writing what he was, and not just the surface, it is far different than what religions teach today. Usually there were specific events that Paul was addressing, and they were not meant as overall rules about every situation.
Also, consider this. If, as has been pointed out, Jesus is actually the God of the OT (Jehovah), then He's a pretty serious guy and isn't just a nice, sweet guy.
85
Post 666: Revelation--Its Grand Climax in 70 AD
by Londo111 in
1. watchtower
2. bible
revelation is the most misunderstood and misused book of the bible.

the branch davidians and other cults used revelation with deadly results.

fundamentalists have used it to prognosticate a future where the antichrist and his one world government mark people with microchips or barcodes during a seven year tribulation.
Christ Alone

Hmmm...I don't see the conflict, Sab. I hope I'm not being dense. I really am trying to understand your argument. Yes, God put those governments in power. But worship is never to be given to them. Respect and conditional obedience is. But if the demand worship, then that is not to be given. Similarly IF there is a singluar antichrist during the end times, and he demands that we have the mark of the beast, to buy and sell, then that would be something that would not do based on what Revelation says. Just how that comes about, what the mark of the beast is, and why it would be required to buy and sell remains to be seen.
Also, IF there are various books of the Bible that speak of the end times (both OT and NT), and IF you believe that the entire Bible is inspired, then I don't see that it is a doctrinal theory to take the parts of all books that speak of the end times and put together a comprehensive picture of what they are saying about what would happen during the end times.
That being said, I am in no way certain of exactly how everything will happen, or even if I have any of the events right. I have a solid picture in my head of what I think the scriptures are saying and what could happen. But the problem with eschatology is that it never turns out the way that you would expect it to. I could be wrong in everything single thing I believe, which is why I try to be open to other interpretations.
51
Jesus was an Angel and used God's name
by Christ Alone in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
interesting stuff in the november wt.

note this dishonest quote:.

during his ministry, jesus.
Christ Alone

Data-Dog, you are right! Only the Cherubim and Seraphim and the 4 living creatures are spoken of as having wings. Interestingly, I don't believe that Cherubim or Seraphim or the living creatures are ever spoken of as actually being angels. They are spoken of as creatures, but never have the word "angel" applied to them. I don't think I'm wrong on this...although I could be. Also, even though angels are said to fly in heaven, nowhere can I see that the bible says they have wings.
As far as I can see, Cherubs and Seraphs show up in the garden of eden, on the ark of the covenent, in various visions, and in Revelation. But I can't seem to find anything that calls them "angels". This sort of leads me to believe that they are a different sort of creature all together.
51
Jesus was an Angel and used God's name
by Christ Alone in
1. watchtower
2. beliefs
interesting stuff in the november wt.

note this dishonest quote:.

during his ministry, jesus.
Christ Alone

No, Elephant, I am not saying that Jesus is superior to Jehovah. I am saying that the NAME of Jesus is greater than every name. And that includes the NAME Jehovah. JWs think that Jehovah is a referrence to the Father only. That has been shown to not be the case.
In the New Testament we have the name Jesus Christ which means God (Jehovah) is salvation Acts 4:12 " Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. "
In Zechariah 12 JEHOVAH is speaking (verses 1 and 4). In verse 10 Jehovah says, "They shall look upon ME whom they have pierced." This can refer to no one other than Christ (compare John 19:37 and Revelation 1:7).
The Jehovah of the Old Testament declares Himself to be the First and the Last: "Thus saith Jehovah the King of Israel and his redeemer the Jehovah of hosts; I am the first and I am the last; and beside me there is no God: (Isaiah 44:6 and see Isaiah 41:4; 48:11-12). Who is declared to be "the first and the last" on the pages of the New Testament (see Revelation 1:8,11,17,18; 22:13)?
In Isaiah 6:5 the prophet said, "Mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD (Jehovah) of hosts." Isaiah saw JEHOVAH! The Apostle John referred to this same event and made it very clear that the Person whom Isaiah saw was actually Jesus Christ: "These things said Esaias [Isaiah], when he saw His [Christ’s] glory, and spake of Him (referring in the context to Christ)" – John 12:41.
In Psalm 23:1 David declared that JEHOVAH is the Great Shepherd of the Sheep. According to the New Testament, Who is the Great Shepherd of the Sheep (John 10:11,14: Hebrews 13:20)? Also, the Old Testament repeatedly refers to Jehovah as Israel's ROCK (Deuteronomy 32:3, 4, 18; Psalm 18:2; Psalm 62:1-2; etc.). The New Testament clearly identifies this ROCK as Christ (1 Corinthians 10:4)!
In Exodus 3:14-15 we learn that JEHOVAH is the great "I AM." According to the Gospel of John, Who is the great "I AM" (see John 6:35; 8:12; 8:24; 8:58; 10:9; 10:11; 11:25; 14:6; 18:5-6)?
In Isaiah 43:10-11 and 45:21 JEHOVAH declares Himself to be the ONLY SAVIOUR. There is no other Saviour besides Him! According to the New Testament, Who is the ONLY SAVIOUR (Acts 4:10-12)?
In Isaiah 45:21-22 JEHOVAH says, "Look unto ME and be ye saved...there is none else." In John 3:14-16 we are told to look unto the crucified One to be saved!
In Isaiah 45:21-23 JEHOVAH says, "that unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." In Philippians 2:9-11 this passage in Isaiah is applied to Christ, the One before Whom all shall someday bow!
In Isaiah 24:23 and Zephaniah 3:15-17 we learn that JEHOVAH Himself will reign in Jerusalem during the coming kingdom age and will be in the midst of His people. What does the New Testament tell us about the identity of this future, millennial King (Revelation 19:11-16; 20:4,6)?
In Isaiah 40:3 we learn that John the Baptist was to prepare the way for the coming of Jehovah. In Mark 1:1-3 the same passage is applied to Christ (John the Baptist prepared the way for Christ).
In Isaiah 8:13-14 prophetically states that JEHOVAH will be "for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence." In 1 Peter 2:7-8 these verses in Isaiah are applied to Jesus Christ.
Compare Joel 2:32 with Acts 2:21,36 and Romans 10:9,13. Who is the LORD (Jehovah) upon whose Name sinners should call ?
The point is that there is overwhelming evidence that Jehovah is a name for God. And many of the passages just given show that when the OT was speaking about Jehovah, it was in fact applied to Jesus.